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Galinaa, I don't know if you have noticed, but my problems/post was from early 2012. Those and other Mark Boucher and Stuart answers helped me a lot solving the problems (although it wasn't even necessary for me to use HEC in my small pilot area, of 10,000 km2). Unfortunatelly, I finished my work many months ago and I can't remember details of how I succeed to tell you. Besides, my ArcGIS sudent's licence expires in 3 days and I don't intend to renew it, once I'm not working on that project anylonger. But the forum helps a lot! Don't panic and before you post your problems, make an exhaustive check of the detailed instructions posted in the specialized fora by specialists like them and you'll succeed too. Good luck!
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02-12-2014
06:57 AM
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Thank you, Mark I had already read your post and followed most of you advices. Unfortunately ghosts keep haunting me! But thank you, anyway.
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08-10-2012
08:02 AM
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Hi all! (I hope there is some Ghost busters reading me) Well, after months of work, I finally have my culverts and bridges watersheds well defined by ArcGIS(MAP) with ArcHydro! I'm working in a mask with 'only' 172 of them. Now I need to perform complex hydrologic and hydraulic calculations, but strange things have happened... Believe me, there are GHOSTS in the ArcHydro outputs! I have 2 examples: 1) I used the 'Join Field' function (ArcMap/Data Management) to bring 'L' and 'S' from the layer 'Long Flow Path' to the layer 'Watershed' (where I was planning to concentrate my automatic calculations, the model I want to build). The fields are copied, but... with 172 "NULL" values!? Well, let us right-click and delete them, right? Wrong: the 'delete field' button is not iluminated, not available for use. Of course I tried to use the 'delete field' function (ArcMap/Data Management), but guess what? The fields brought by 'Join Field' with no values are not listed! I'm quite convinced they are ghost fields. But they are not the only ones... 2) I created a raster of slopes (actually two, one with ArcMap and another one with ArcHydro, both perfect!) and was finally going to obtain the average slope of each one of the 172 watersheds! How excited I was about that! The best way I've found to do it, as a newcomer self-learner of ArcGIS, was the 'zonal statistics', maybe 'zonal statistics as table'. The zone data was, of course, my brand new watershed layer, a polygon feature (a perfectly valid one, according to the ArcGIS Desktop Help). The input value raster was the slope layer (I tried both of them). Could I have the mean values, please? NO, ArcGIS answered me. WHY, did I ask? Error 010160, unable to open raster watershed. But this is not a raster and you are not supposed to assume that it's a a raster! OK, I changed the zone field, the one which is supposed to indentify each one of the waterhseads; maybe it could help. YES, now ArcGIS could read the feature zone data! YET it told me: error 010067 now, 'error in executing grid expression'. You must check your Map Algebra expression: it's probably wrong, because I can't understand it, 'he' told me. But that Map Algebra is actually a function created by ESRI!!! How could I revise it? Well, a whole lost day with dozens of unsuccessful tries... I can't perform any statistics or operation within my 172 watersheds... THEY ARE LIKE GHOSTS. Well, if someone doubt that softwares (even a sofisticated one, like ArcGIS), have the power to produce GHOSTS, please answer this post with at least one good explanation for the useless of layers and fields constructed in months of hard work with this sofisticated software (which is driving me crazy). THANK YOU, GHOST BUSTERS ON CALL!!!
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08-09-2012
07:07 PM
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Thank you Lorna! I've solved this problem today, thinking at some suggestions (Peter Wilson, South Africa, and Mark Boucher, California) and combining them. I created a BatchPoints layer drawing just 1 point, then I used the "append" function to add the points from the roads X hydrography layer (after a day or two trying many many possible ways to use "cut and paste" buttons, which wouldn't work!) Then I edited the necessary parameters and run the "Batch Watershed delineation". Not much different from what you suggested, right? Well, it's amazing that even having a top configuration of hardware (which I bought 6 months ago, having this ArcGIS project requirements as my main concern), I almost failed!! The ArcHydro changed from "non responding" to "thinking" dozens of times and took 10 to 15 minutes doing that to delineated the 144 basins I needed. Unfortunatelly, this is a small part of the area I'm studying (only 5%) and I'm afraid the size of the area will be a serious challenge to ArcGIS tools, even with the version 10 resources intended to deal with this problem (and even if I had NASA computers to work in this project!) Anyway, I appreciate your help very much! I put this same message in this "ArcHydro forum", the "Hydro forum" and the "Spatial Analyst forum", and each of them gave me just one, but as you can see, very helpful answers. The fora is the main way we have to find good help, when colleagues like you take time to help others. I don't know if advanced users like you would agree, but I find very FRUSTRATING the incomplete and unhelpful "help" ESRI provides with this software. I've done 40 hours of online training and already know dozens of pages of the "desktop help" by heart, but I still can't answer some basic questions. I can't help thinking that ESRI sells a product which is a great tool, with a great potential, but with a very poor documentation and support. Unfortunatelly, business looks much more important than science for them, even with the help of the University of Texas. Well, thank you very much once more!
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07-17-2012
08:30 PM
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Thank you Peter! I've got some suggestions but I will try your schema, as it looks to be a simple and efficient way to do what I need. I'm glad your experience confirms that I'm not taking fool conclusions, but actually reaching the state of art limits. Thank you for sharing this with me, I appreciate that!
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07-14-2012
09:02 AM
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Thank you very much, Mark! You gave me "more fuel" to keep moving ahead from the point i've been stuck for weeks! Good to know you had same difficulties with the batch delineation, so I don't credit my difficulties to my lack of experience. I'm trying to build an interesting model using the ArcGIS in a postdoctoral project, but I'm new to GIS and wouldn't have arrived where I am without the help of experienced users like you. I also have to say that the limitations of the tools (ArcMap and ArcHydro) and the "unhelpful help files" of both are very frustrating. I really thought the state of the art was more advanced. Anyway, I will start getting familiar this GeoHMS you mentioned and then try the path you suggested. I really appreciate your help!
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07-09-2012
09:02 AM
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Hi all! After a long pathway, I obtained the synthetic drainage lines of my study area, quite well defined (ArcMap tools were not enough for this, I had do install and use ArcHydro). I intersected them with a roads layer and found about 3,000 consistently defined drainage points. I also have the catchments and the adjoint catchment well defined at the drainage lines joints. But I need to delineate the watersheds for each culvert or bridge. When I try to use "Delineate from multiple I and O" (ArcHydro 2.1) the ArcMap (10.0) simply stops responding. I think the "Batch watershed delineation" (ArcHydro function) would be a better way to do what I need, but I can't find a way to automatically generate the 3,000 batch points I have (actually I'm working in a small mask, with 150 pilot points). Even when I use the tool/button "Batch point generation" (ArcHydro) to manually define just 1 of the 150 points I have, the "batchdone" field gets a "-1", what means that the delineation has failed (with no explanation why that or any clue in the ArcHydro help to solve the problem). I also went back to the Sapatial Analyst tools and tryed "watershed", after using "snap pour point" in order to get better results. It didn't work, the output layers are empty or delineate one single waterhsed (adjoint catchment). DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW TO DELINEATE THE WATERSHEDS TO PREDETERMINED POINTS (THOUSANDS OF THEM)? I'd appreciate any help at all!!!
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07-06-2012
09:04 AM
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Hi all! After a long pathway, I obtained the synthetic drainage lines of my study area, quite well defined. I intersected them with a roads layer and found about 3,000 consistently defined drainage points. I also have the catchments and the adjoint catchment well defined at the drainage lines joints. But I need to delineate the watersheds for each culvert or bridge. When I try to use "Delineate from multiple I and O" the ArcMap simply stops responding. I think the "Batch watershed delineation" would be a better function for my purpose, but I can't find a way to automatically generate the 3,000 batch points I have (actually I'm working in a small mask, with 150 pilot points). Even when I use the tool/button "Batch point generation" to manually define just 1 of the 150 points I have, the "batchdone" field gets a "-1", what means that the delineation has failed (with no explanation why that or any clue in the ArcHydro to help to solve the problem). DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW TO DELINEATE THE WATERSHEDS TO PREDETERMINED POINTS (THOUSANDS OF THEM)? I'd appreciate any help at all!!!
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07-06-2012
08:55 AM
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Hi all! After a long pathway, I obtained the synthetic drainage lines of my study area, quite well defined. I intersected them with a roads layer and found about 3,000 consistently defined drainage points. I also have the catchments and the adjoint catchment well defined at the drainage lines joints. But I need to delineate the watersheds for each culvert or bridge. When I try to use "Delineate from multiple I and O" the ArcMap simply stops responding. I think the "Batch watershed delineation" would be a better function for my purpose, but I can't find a way to automatically generate the 3,000 batch points I have (actually I'm working in a small mask, with 150 pilot points). Even when I use the tool/button "Batch point generation" to manually define just 1 of the 150 points I have, the "batchdone" field gets a "-1", what means that the delineation has failed (with no explanation why that or any clue in the ArcHydro to help to solve the problem). DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW TO DELINEATE THE WATERSHEDS TO PREDETERMINED POINTS (THOUSANDS OF THEM)? I'd appreciate any help at all!!!
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07-06-2012
08:52 AM
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Hi everybody, I'm trying to build synthetic drainage lines as coincident as possible with the "real world" shown in the cartography. I think that is a basic purpose of everyone performing hydrological analysis of natural areas, right? 1st I used ArcGIS without the help of ArcHydro and the results were simply unacceptable! (My area has a complicated topography, with many lakes, large and flat valleys, etc.) Then I used ArcHydro to recondition the DEM and also to adjust flow direction in lakes. The results were much better! But I still have problems. For example, it gives me 3 parallel drainage lines where I had burnt the only existing one with the reconditioning function. I wish I could erase the two obvious wrong lines, but even if that was possible, it would take me weeks or months to "clean" all the study area (of about 10,000 km2). So, now I'm trying to use "Flow Direction with Streams" instead of "Stream Definition", as the help file stays it's possible; but it seems impossible! The "Flow Dir with Streams" simply doesn't work and many people in the forum, from 2009 to 2012, have mentioned the same hermetic error messages (only software engineers and other experts would understand such messages; I'm just a water resources engineer). None of those people got answers. The forum is a good idea, but not powerful enough to help in many cases. I wish the ESRI technical staff who designed so many specialised functions had written more comprehensive description of their use in the help files. What could I do to have a synthetic drainage network closer to the real world, so that I can work with it to perform the sound hydrological analysis I need? I'D APPRECIATE ANY SUGGESTION (EVEN FROM THOSE IN SAME HOPELESS SITUATION, MAYBE ONLY A FEW STEPS AHEAD OF ME). THANKS!
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05-10-2012
10:45 AM
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Hi I'm having the same error! I found that a guy had the same error in 2009 and have answered himself, but I can't figure out what to do after reading him: Subject Re: Flow direction with streams Author Niall Duncan Date Apr 15, 2009 Message As this is part of the toolbox rather than the toolbar you have to run the Create Target Locations tool before it will work. Could do with a slightly more helpful error message. I'appreciate if anyone can explain me how this guy solved the problem or any other solution to the problem. Thanks
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05-10-2012
07:47 AM
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Hi Mark, I have only a little more (6 GB RAM, intel i5 3.0GHz) and no problem at all with large datasets (You've helped me in the very first steps, weeks ago). I noticed others have said you should have no problems with your machine and your not so large dataset and I don't know if you have already got the answer you were looking for. But when I downloaded the ArcHydro in the ESRI ftp site you referred to me, I got some reference documents there. There's an excellent article from Djokic 2008 (he has more recently evaluated the ArcGIS 10 with ArcHydro 2.xxx; seems to be an ESRI's expert in ArcHydro). The article, "Comprehensive Terrain Preporcessing Using Arc Hydro Tools", the best you could get on the subjet, has a good introduction about hardware requirements and some tips on how to deal with memory limits. For example, "For most common computers that can run ArcGIS software reasonably well, DEMs bigger than 20,000 by 20,000 cells will cause problems and potentially produce uncertain results"; and also "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\ESRI\Raster\Preferences\grid.max_table_range contains the maximum number of records that are allowed for creation of VAT (STA) for a grid. The default is 65.536. When processing large DEM, that number might be too small and the function will fail (especially when performing fill sinks operation). Increasing that number (e.g. to 1.000.000) might fix a problem." Maybe I'm not telling anything new, but I'm answering your thread just in case this article can be of any help to you and others! Fernando Cabral Posdoc fellow at Université du Québec en Outaouais
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05-09-2012
10:00 AM
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Thank you Lady Jane and Kloi! Consulting other experienced users I arrived at similar conclusions (and a few more tips). My main concern needs to be the DEM quality. Using the "Reconditioning" function in the ArcHydro (I was not using it, but I will), before the "Fill" function (the only one available in the ArcGIS 10 Hydrological functions for us to perform a previous treatment of the DEM), may or may not solve the problem, giving me accurate results to the whole area. I hope so. If not, I'll consider the possibility of acquiring a more precise DEM, like discussed in the report you mentioned. Maybe through GeoEye, do you know it? Another possibility I was given is to perform improvements in the DEM in small areas, if the inaccuracy is restricted to them: use "RasteToPoints" to convert it and use a different interpolation function, such as SP Line with barriers, to get a better DEM in those areas. Well, much work ahead, but I'm writing this to thank you and maybe help other water resources colleagues new to the ArcGIS, like me. I don't know if you are reading me, but I appreciate the help of you both. And I'm glad you liked the title Lady Jane! Sense of humour, for me, is an essential tool to help us in any life situation, not excluding the difficult technical ones!
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04-24-2012
01:34 PM
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I need to define the stream network for a huge area and I???ve finally managed to do so with the ArcGIS 10 hydrologic functions. But the results in a very small area are not accurate enough for me to reproduce the process to the whole project area (ArcGIS would lead me to deal with 1 culvert as if it was a set of many wrongly placed culverts; and I have more than 13,000 culverts in the project area!) I???m attaching a Word file with 3 images of a stream network (and the road network, once I???m studying roads drainage). The ArcGIS results are very close of what we could deduce (image 1) and confirm with satellite photos (image 2). Actually, what we can deduce is confirmed by a hydrography layer (image 3, planimetric information). But I need to work with the ArcGIS results. Because of that, I???m trying to realise how we could ???force??? the mathematical ArcGIS results so that they would better reproduce the real world. I???ve read in the ArcGIS help about the Flow Accumulation function that ???If no weight raster is specified, a default weight of 1 will be applied to each cell???. I couldn???t find much more about the use of a weight raster and I???d like to ask anyone who has faced similar hydrologic problems: COULD WE CONVERT A HYDROGRAPH LAYER (WITH DRAINAGE LINES) IN A WEIGHT RASTER TO USE WITH FLOW ACCUMULATION, SO THAT ITS RESULTS WOULD COINCIDE WITH THE PLANIMETRIC ONES? Any tips on how to do that? Any other ideas on how to teach ???common sense??? to the flow accumulation function? (Any hydrologist wouldn't draw 3 parallel drainage lines, like ArcGIS did in that small area, where there???s obvious only one preferential way to the water.) Thank you to anyone who would take some time to think on this problem and share his/her ideas with me! *** Sorry, the file is 4MB and the maximum allowed is 1MB. But its not essential to discuss the problem, I think.
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04-19-2012
09:44 AM
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The ArcGIS Desktop Help leads to a wrong understanding about the order some basic hydrologic functions are supposed to be performed. It should be urgently revised. I???m new to GIS and tried to follow the help flowchart (???An overview of the Hydrology toolset / Deriving runoff characteristics???) to define a stream network. 1st problem: starting with a DEM, it shows [flow direction] as the first function. That???s right, but if the DEM has sinks we need to make it a depressionless DEM and, after that, perform [flow direction] AGAIN (what is not clear!) 2nd problem: if the [flow direction] output has sinks, we can use it as an input to the [sink] function in order to identify them. But this is only an optional step, especially if we want to fill the sinks without specifying a ???z??? limit. The [sink] is not a pre-requisite to run [fill], as the flowchart show us. 3rd problem: the input to run [fill] is not the output of sink, as the flowchart lead us to think. Neither is it the output of [flow direction], used in the previous action (performing [sink]). The input to [fill] is simply the original DEM. All other functions needed in hydrologic analysis, shown in the flowchart (and some which are not shown), need, as inputs, the outputs of either or both: [flow direction] and [flow accumulation]. Then, a better understanding of the hydrologic analysis process using ArcGIS could be reached substituting this flowchart by two very simple ones: a) Without sinks: DEM => [flow direction] => [flow accumulation] => Stream network defined; and b) With sinks: DEM => [fill] => Depressionless DEM => [flow direction] => [flow accumulation] => Stream network defined. The only thing that needs to be added is a clear explanation: ???We start with the flowchart (a) and run the [flow direction]. If the output raster has any cells with a value which is not 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64 or 128, this is a sink (a numerical error or a natural sink, like a pond or a lake). Then we need to go back and use the flowchart (b). Just that simple! But it took me a long trial and error process to arrive at such conclusions, not to mention the extensive discussions in the hydro forum, which almost led me to install a complementary software (ArcHydro) which, actually, it???s not essential to the initial analysis I???m performing. I hope this thread can help the ESRI developers to improve the ArcGIS Help; or can help other beginners to save time when performing hydrological analysis.
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03-26-2012
01:44 PM
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